Now here is the other side of the coin. You read an article about paying students for good grades.
Now how about charging them for minor discipline infractions. Read the article and leave your comments.
Monday, February 20, 2012
Charging Students for Discipline Infractions
Now here is the other side of the coin. You read an article about paying students for good grades.
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37 comments:
4th period
Wow! After I read this article I was speechless. It's one thing to fine a student for cell phones, but putting a fine on having untied shoelaces or having a button that was unbuttoned is preposterous. They're even fining the less fortunate! I mean what happens if a student was having a bad day and they weren't wearing a smile on their face? Would that be a fine as well? It does seem to be effective, but it also seems as if though the administrators of this school is just trying to get money.Last year it collected almost $190,000 in discipline fees. With all this money they're getting, I hope no one has to buy Prom tickets or any tickets for their school functions. It truly is "a form of financial torture."
I thought this article was hilarious. A five dollar fine for chewing gum? I rather be MOOed at by Mrs. Ellington than give up five bucks for chewing a stick of gum. I mean not even a pack of gum cost 5 dollars. I do not think the students should always be fined for minor slip ups either such as not having their shoes tied. In my opinion, I would just wear Velcro shoes. I would save so much money. I also wonder if they ever have raids on random mornings just to see how much money they can collect...
Dakota Hanka
Period 7
Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, I applaud the Noble administration for branching out from traditional disciplinary techniques into new territory. That said, I would admit that financial punishments for students is not quite the way to go. In truth, it does hurt poorer families more than others and paves the way for some students to become the targets of a teacher's malice for minor infractions that really don't matter. However, the success of Noble's program cannot be denied, though its ethics can. Since Noble is a private school system anyway, they are able to address things how they see fit and in that respect I support them. My only hope is that these same practices do not spread to the public system.
Taylor Williams
4th
I believe the school has the right idea but they have taken it too far. There is no reason that if you don't have your shoes tied that you have to pay for it. The staff could simply ask the students to tie their shoes which takes only a few seconds from their day. And even if the student does not do it there is no real threat to any other student. The school is using this as a tactic to scam money from the families of the students who go there. I do believe that the structure is good the students and having them go about rules but there is a line and they have totally crossed it. When a school racks in $190,000 from throwing kids in detention not for fighting or disrespect but for things like an unbuttoned shirt there is something wrong with that system. If I were the parents I would want to know where this money is going to? This is completely out of line not so much because of what they are doing but because of the extent they are taking it. How do the parents know there is no underline scam that is putting this money into the pockets of the teachers as a pay off or for favors paid under the table.
This article was ridiculous. The administrators seem to have the right idea in mind, but the way they execute it is absurd! There is a difference between an accidental error and a transgression. Fining students for the stupidest of reasons such as chewing gum or having untied shoelaces is just dumb and crosses the line of "discipline." The belief that strictly correcting small transgressions prevents larger ones altogether is an impossible goal. The administration needs to redo their rule system and not base it solely off money.
Malavika Chander
Period 4
I disagreed with the idea of paying kids for good grades, and I also disagree with fining kids for bad behavior. I believe money should be kept out of the system for applauding and disciplining kids at school. The personal worth of money is different for every individual, for $5 dollars to one student may seem like $500 to another. Not everyone is in the same economic class, and the punishment may be more harsh for lower income families. That is besides the point however. The real world does work like this. You do not get fined for minor infractions like an untied shoe. Students have to learn to keep themselves up in the real world, because the real world is not so strict as to guide one in every aspect of life.
Hmm...perhaps THIS may be the way to get rid of our national debt! But in all seriousness, I believe that the premise behind charging students for discipline infractions has good intentions, but was badly pulled off. Its just enough like real life like when petty misdemeanor crimes have to be paid for in fines, but sure enough, if EVERY little thing is fined, then there's no power to the means. Charging a student for having their shoes untied? Might as well attempt to charge students for dropping a pencil... If the fining was left to actual offenses, then perhaps the students would know better. Of course, there are always the parents that actually have money that could care less for a $20 fine, and simply pay it off without a wink.
Ok, well I really don’t know where to begin on this. The whole discipline system in place at the Noble school it pretty strange to me. Of course, I’ve never been fined for having my shoe untied or for not wearing a belt. I went to private school until ninth grade so I’m familiar with uniforms. If we were out of dress code we got a uniform infraction that was separate from a normal discipline for misbehavior. If the uniform infractions piled up, you could get after school or lunch detention. If behavior infractions piled up, they would be handled separately. It was a pretty good system to keep things in order. Having an untied shoe lace should not be punished the same way talking in class is and especially should not be reason for a fine.
Tia Wettman
Period 4
Phillip Thai
4
I believe that this article is absurd and ridiculous. There are other substitutes that may work just as efficient, having to pay a fine for chewing gum or having an untied shoelace is not necessary at all. I think they should reconsider this idea and hopefully come up with a more reasonable solution.
I have to admit, my first thought after reading this article was, "Well, whatever works." They do have impressive credentials, but this is NOT the way to go about getting them. The line that stuck out to me the most was the quote from the mother who said not to treat young adults like little kids. If we give you respect, give it back. That is something I think a lot of schools (including ours) could learn from. When dress code says no holes in jeans, they don't mean a tiny accidental rip at the bottom. When it says to be clean shaven, they mean don't grow a beard. When you take rules too far it just makes kids despise you for it. Why punish someone when they are not doing anything that REALLY distracts students from learning? Isn't the whole point of school for our education? Then why stick kids in ISS for no REAL reason? It's the same idea here, making students pay for detention is actually not a bad idea, it's just morally wrong. But when they're getting $190,000 from untied shoes there's an issue. There are other ways to handle this situation, without charging kids who may not be able to afford it. Five dollars is five dollars, but some people just don't have that to spare - especially in today's economy.
4th period
I can see the idea behind this and it is a good idea in theory but it really isn't fair. I get that they want to punish kids for their wrong doings in hopes that it won't happen again but just think... If Elkins fined $5 for not wearing your ID, most of the students would be broke. Granted, a majority of students don't wear their ID's because of stubbornness but some simple forget to put it on or wake up late and are rushed out the door. It is stupid to fine kids for things like that. I almost think it's unconstitutional... I mean I guess in private school it's okay because you pay to go there so you know the rules ahead of time but in public school that is wrong. Kids won't be able to afford anything after so many violations. Its hard to institute policies when they involve money because its such a crucial thing to have and taking it away for a silly button is just dumb.
The plan is effective, but by no means ethical. It really isn't fair for those kids that are from less fortunate families, and if they really wanted to be fair about it they would charge the less fortunate kids less money, based on their parents income, like how they do taxes. You cannot deny the fact that the plan is effective, but the school has pushed it a bit too far. Does missing a belt or having one untied shoelace really prevent the students from learning? If anything, the students should only be charged for legitimate reasons like vandalizing school property or doing drugs.
4th period
Considering the schools ACT score still sits at 20.3, it does not seem like the excessive and absurd fines are having an effect on the academic standpoint of the school. The school has the right idea by wanting to scare students so that they won't even want to chew a piece of gum, however, making them pay a fine makes the students seem like criminals. Giving the students detention for chewing a mere piece of gum is already stupid enough but don't take hard-earned money from the student and their family. It probably already costs a fortune to attend a school like this. This whole scheme seems like a pathetic attempt by the school to rake in cash considering they collected almost $200,000 last school year. Just sad tsk tsk.
4th period
I thought this article was ridiculous. The school has no right to charge students for things so insignificant as having an untied shoelace or chewing gum. This system just seems like a way for the school to try and make money off their students. Fining the students for things such as untied shoelaces takes a toll on the whole family. Some families don't have very much money, and having to pay even a small amount for these ridiculous fines can add up. I think this is completely unethical.
Who would have thought that people would come to this? I have wondered before if any school system would take it so far as to fine their students. Fort Bend's cell phone policy is sort of similar, having to pay $15 after an administrator confiscates it. In a sense, that is exactly what the Noble school is doing - fining students for breaking the rules. It's just that their rules are much MUCH more harsh than ours are in FB. Making kids afraid of going broke is definitely not the same thing as teaching them a lesson about what they've done wrong and WHY their actions are considered unacceptable. I think that's one of the most important concepts in discipline - making sure the offender understands the poor decision-making on his/her part and sees why it is not right. Charging fees along with the detention simply makes the students more cautious only because they surely want to spend their money on other things. Although it appears to be incredibly successful, I think there are long term effects here that the administration is not considering. Like Moore said, "kids internalize that."
I feel that the Noble Networking school system is fining students only for profit. I feel that if you fine someone from doing wrong that they are not going to gain anything from it. Sure they will lose $5 dollars,but that is just a number that can be found on the side of the road. I am pretty sure that fining a student for "discipline" actions, such as chewing gum or having their shoe untied, is unconstitutional.
Naturally, there are pros and cons to the subject matter of this article. However, I believe the principles that the Nobel Network of Charter Schools is aiming to achieve are necessary. By “sweating the small stuff”, the greater issues are, by virtue, not a factor. Yet, as is evident by this article, even more tangible in our own school, sweating the small stuff can cause a massive distraction. For example, the 1st period round up of all students not wearing their identification tags, or those males unlucky enough to have the most menial amount of facial hair, was more of a subtraction than a positive experience. The ISS room was filled to capacity, and a plethora of naturally “good” students were subject to a Saturday detention while cheating, fighting, and illegal activity still went on, seemingly unpunished. While I applaud this innovative system, I believe that should be an increasing consistency when it comes to discipline. There should not be such a strict focus on something as “small” as facial hair or untied shoelaces, but rather a convergence on poor behavior as a whole.
While some of the comments by various groups and other concerned people seem a little much ("financial torture") I largely do not agree with the way Nobel is running its schools. While there ACT and other statistics are impressive I don't think students families should have to pay money when students commit infractions. This program reminded me of our school system. Someone I know had to pay $300 in court fees for truancy. It seems quite excessive to me.
Eamonn Gossard
Period 4
While not fun, focusing on getting the little things right is important. However, I do not believe that fining students is a proper form of discipline. Wealthier students would not be as inclined to behave, as some of the poorer students, who may be scrambling to pay the fine for their shoe accidently being untied. Frankly, I believe the best way to handle students misbehaving in school, is to simply kick them out. For instance, the one student mentioned in the article who had 33 demerits, obviously has more than an attention disorder, he has a serious problem with authority and with taking orders. This student has been told many times that the behavior he is distributing is undesirable, and he continues to do so. He is not showing any attempt to change, and he will not, so simply kick him out and stop letting him drag his fellow students down. Do not misinterpret this as me saying kids should be kicked out of school for not tying shoes, but there are certain kids that have no other goal at school than to cause trouble, and who enjoy doing so, and these students should be kicked out. I believe higher expulsion would be a better deterrent to behavioral issues than fines.
Aimee Breaux
period 7
While it sounds horrible for the students to have to pay these fines, maybe there are more positive effects that are left unconsidered in this article. First and foremost, where does the money go to? Perhaps the whole thing can be legitimized if the cost went towards scholarships (as this school has declared their efforts to promote college attendance in a low income area). On the other hand, if this funding is just going towards frivolous costs such as supplying principles with ipads, then the situation resembles the plot to Robin Hood without a Robin. Also, maybe teachers will show more leniency. If the fines serve as a more serious deterrent, then teachers can simply hint at the punishment as a warning instead of issuing a real and lesser punishment (i.e. lunch detention) without a warning.
Noble School sucks at teaching. I wish all of its administrators would get fired and would never get a job again. They don't want to rob a bank because they lack the temerity to do so, which they poured all over onto the students.
As a student, with little money of my own aside from what's left over after a summer job, I see this school's charging of students to be a little idiotic. The charging of students will drain their family's pocket books much faster than the student will learn their lesson, and when not only the student but his or her parents have run out of money at the expense of an unbuttoned shirt, I personally think that the charges have gone too far. I do believe that the school has good intentions with trying to prevent larger issues from occurring but I do not believe driving students farther below the poverty line than they already are will solve any of the school's issues.
If the fines were for doing large actions, like getting into a fight, then it would be understandable. However, the "small stuff" is not that important overall. Combining the paying of students for good grades and a fine for harsh violations would be effective. The guy at the end saying it was a beautiful system needs to get out more.
Will Ripley
Period 7
4th period
This article shows the excessive nature of this school. The fact that they focus on little rules, such as untied shoes, leads me to believe that the school administrators need to get a life. Although the idea of tough discipline is on the right track, the money may not even come from the students pockets. More than likely the parents pay all the fees. These fees can really add up and cause financial strain for the families. I did not agree with paying for grades and I do not beilieve in paying for infractions. The school systems need to be able to enforce rules through respect and not cash. If the faculty can not gain this respect from their students in private school that is just sad. This punishment should not spread to public schools because it would hurt a lot of families and Fort Bend ISD would be much to eager to collect more money without doing anything to earn it.
This is abuse of power. Charging for having small things such as chewing gum, united shoelace, and even unbuttoned button? And even holding a kid back because he coudn't pay for all the small infractions. This whole plan is ridiculous. Schools should, instead, make more of an effort on teaching morality and the importance of following rules instead of just giving kids consequences. I also disagree with kids getting paid to get good grades. They should know that getting an education, which is too often taken for granted, is the award they are going to get and should be thankful for.
I see no point in having this system. The school's idea is to keep students from getting in trouble by fining them for wrongdoing. For example, if a student's shoe lace in untied, they have to pay $5. The students don't learn any lesson from that and don't benefit whatsoever. Do the adults get fined for untied shoelaces? Shoelaces becoming untied is not a felony and it happens to everyone. The school just wants money. The system is unjust, especially for families that are not loaded with money.
Marlee Jackson
Eco Period 7
I don't believe that fining kids as a means of discipline should ever be ok. More than likely the kid won't have any money and the parents will be forced to pay the amount. And what happens if the money isn't paid? Will they begin refusing to let kids graduate because their fines have become too substantial or suspend them? Fining kids is just a ridiculous way for the school to make money off of the less fortunate.
7th Period
I found this article to be a complete joke. Fining students for chewing gum and having their shoe lases untie is pretty much a form for the principals and districts to make money the easy way. What if the teacher was chewing gum? Would they fine him/her to? what if a principal misses a couple of hairs while shaving? Would they fine him as well? I personally do not think they will. This is complete torture towards the children and the whole community. This people are just a bunch of lazy personnel that are finding the easy way out of things and are using simple/dumb mistakes by teenagers in their favor.
4th Period
This article was very interesting in the way the school system, for this private school, is administered. I do agree on some points of the article, but I also do disagree with some of the infractions that the school enforces. The infraction about untied shoe laces and unbuttoned shirts goes way beyond the boundaries of whether they cross the line with infractions such as these. If a low income student does not have the money to pay for these infractions, and it just so happens that they tend to get plenty of infractions, then the school system is trying to squeeze out funds from people that cannot even afford it. However, I do agree that by having infractions on such minor things, students will think twice before they want to create a fight, or cause something that would be harmful to the learning environment. Overall, the article was mind boggling, and it made me wonder if that system or the system of paying students might acutually work.
This is just ridiculous in all cases. There is no reason for this at all. The cliff they have built is just too big of one for students to jump. Meaning the students shouldn't not have to take a loan out from the government for breaking one of these rules. There is for sure another way for the administration to go about these things. It seems as though the administration is getting greedy and starting to take advantage of the power that they have. This really affects the families that are barely keeping above par and the only thing they need to sink them is have little Jimmy forget to take out a piece of gum that he was chewing from home. This is just absorb in all cases and needs to be taken care of so that families that are in need of financial aid are not continuing to be hit by these stupid rules
Nick Hernandez
Period 4
Kasey Saldana
7th period
I think the school may have put these rules into action with good intentions, but it got way out of control. If they were fining people for fighting in school or cheating on a test it would be understandable, but punishing someone for "a shirt unbuttoned, shoes not tied, and not tracking the teacher with [their] eyes" is crossing an ethical line. In the real world no one gets fined for untied shoes, they are preparing the students for something unrealistic. Although, this school has good ACT scores and a good rate of people going to college it may just be because students who couldn't reach their standards left that school...
Fining students for behavior is not such a ridiculous idea. Many people support the idea of paying students for making good grades. If students were paid for their grades and could lose money based on performance then school would be a lot more similar to an actual working environment. I think some of the demerits were ridiculous. Peoples shoes become untied. Gum should not be illegal. If schools would fine students for clear and reasonable reasons then i have no problem with the concept. Many students come from low income families and to pay for little infractions is a bit overwhelming. If the money being paid to students for their grades would come as scholarship money then students could have their own personal bank account at the school where they could gain and lose money. Students from low income families could participate without trouble.
Thampuratty Jayadevan
Period 7th
I was surprised at the extend to which they took this tactic. Its fine to dicipline kids but this is just way too much. Its just ripping money off of people tats all. Wow if something like this was in our school im sure my parents would have already gone bankrupt.
i think they charged students for chewing gum is ridiculous. The superintendent said the policy can teach the kids be a better person, but majority of the student from Noble are low-income student. HOW CAN THEY AFFORD TO PAY?!?!? Also one student he had 33 detentions and several suspensions, but coming from shirt unbuttoned, shoes not tied, not tracking the teacher with his eyes. And that student had to repeat 9th grade. To me, is unfair to the student and parent
Ashley Dinh
4th period
Fining students for little mistakes such as chewing gum is extremely unreasonable. Punishing them for their misbehavior is reasonable to a certain extent. It hurts the low income families and it doesn't reflect the students academic performance at all. I think that the school is taking advantage of their power to charge students for demerits. Most students don't have any source of income or job so I don't think they should be punished for not even being able to pay for the fines as well.
I think it's ridiculous for the students to be fined for almost every miniscule error in their appearance or actions. Even if the administrators are trying to perfect them for the real world, they've failed to realize that there is room for some error in the real world. I just think this is a case of people taking themselves too seriously and power going to their heads.
While it does seem like these people had the right idea to get the kids to regard rules, I don't think they went about doing it the right way. I mean, if administrators at our school did this, I'd go crazy and get together with other students to find a way to revolt and topple the totalitarian freaks. Overall, these people suck. Stop taking kids' money. Meow!
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