Over the past year the credit crisis has erased trillions of dollars in investor wealth. Peoples retirement funds, savings for college, and home equity have disappeared almost overnight. The economic downturn has now spread worldwide, with one country, Iceland, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. Business executives assuredly played a part in this catastrophe.
Perhaps it is time to come up with a business version of the Hippocratic Oath, taken by doctors and medical workers. This interesting idea is the thesis of this article taken from the Economist magazine. Sound like a good idea or not. Can you think of any unintended consequences that might arise?
72 comments:
The Icelandic nation is not on the edge on bankrupty. The treasury is almost with out a dept, so they can take considerable loans. But today in the credit crisis, cash is not availible.
The Icelandic nation is not on the edge on bankrupty. The treasury is almost with out a dept, so they can take considerable loans. But today in the credit crisis, cash is not availible.
I'm glad patriotism still exists. From what happened to Iceland, though, it seems clear that some kind of change in the system is needed. With trillions lost in retirement funds, some kind of control should be exerted over the invisible hand to save people from financial destitution. Although smaller start-up companies could be unregulated, the larger corporations may need to be overseen by the government to ensure protection of consumers.
having business people have to take an oath is rather silly because most of business is motivated by self-interest. it's too hard to free yourself from bias and make a decision that will benefit lots of other people if it doesn't benefit you. it is true that they don't have to go through anywhere near as much schooling as doctors and lawyers do which leads them to make bad decisions.
yay for random icelandic person crashing the pye blog!!
I just have two things to say.
One- Business licenses and codes of conduct are goint to be a joke if they ever get off the ground. Maybe in the distant future (when it will be too late) things will change, but people in business are going to keep doing what they do. A code of conduct will be the equivalent of an "honesty policy", and with the kinds of people running our current financial system, who knows how this wil turn out.
Two- how the heck did this iceland guy get on here?
I think the idea of business people taking a Hippocratic Oath is good, but only as an idea. If it ever takes fruition I don't think people would actually sacrifice themselves for the whole of the economy. It is human instinct to worry about one's self first. Cute idea though.
and lolz @ the iceland guy. Notice that he has a total of 0 responses for his blog.
Dear Iceland lover/ Viking/ Frozen Anglo Saxon,
A practicing surgeon, when placed in their own hands, the fate of whether or not a person will die, will unlikely say: "i better not let this dude slip away to the heavens, because that oath i took said not to harm anyone." They more than likely will be more conscious of how much their malpractice insurance will cover if they mess up. Same with a business dude; it just seems to be a mere trivial procession in the light of all the other worries businessmen have to face...like the "oath" of paying back a lender for the suicidal-like amount of money spent building up the company in the first place
I think its silly to have workers take an oath, even though they probably did play some sort of part in the current financial catastrophes, it was probably not intentional. There clearly needs to be some sort of change that won't be achieved through an oath, which only sounds in good in idea. But honesty cannot be regulated or enforced.
The concept that someone can place a standard to what constitutes business acumen is somewhat absurd. Business, unlike medicine or law, does not require knowledge of standard principles by which all businesses use, but rahter is the exact opposite. Business knowledge is knowing what others, namely your competitors, do not know to gain a competitive edge. To enforce a strict set of principles would decrease the creativity associated with actual business knowledge.
The whole idea of applying an oath for business people has its ups and downs. In a way it does seem only right to require them to take an oath for the best interest of the nation, however, unlike medicine or law, business does not exactly do any intentional harm unless due to some sort of major catastrophe(like the economy crashing) but most incidents are out of the control of the acutal business person.
This whole article according to me seems bias,as the harvard professors are coming up with a way of introducing new business tactics to keep their institution with the grand title. Just as every universities increases the number of unnecessary subjects to earn profit.Ex: a pre pharm student has to several superfluous subjects while they study which increases every year as the demand for pharmacy goes higher. According to me this article is not going to change the present situation and may be help the future, but there are several sucessful people who didnot study management and make a fortune out of whatever profession they choose.
The Oath sounds great on paper, but I don't believe this juvenile honor system-like oath will help anything. I also disagree with these comparisons of medicine and law to management, as they are completely unrelated. While law and medicine must be studied for years to become competent, managers can become successful using "street smarts."
haha iceland crisis guy...thats great keep up your positivity =P soo funny
Well it seems that something has got to change in the business world, but I do not think a hippocratic oath is what we need. Also, every business is very different from another while medicine and law are more regulated in general..Larger corporations maybe should be more regulated, but the small local family businesses should be more unregulated.
Management is leadership, and leadership cannot be taught, it’s something you are born with. Leaders inspire and set the example. They are almost like cheerleaders pumping up the office team. Every business should be lead by leaders who follow a moral code. Not some written up sheets of guidelines and procedures.
Making an oath to be a manager justs really bizarre to me. I think all it takes to run a business successfully is using common knowledge and a good sense of managing. If you recieve a license that entitles you to manage a business it does not neccessarily mean you will do an excellent job at upholding a company.
I think the intentions behind the oath is good...but it won't necessarily work out. It would be very easy to agree, and then claim that your fingers were crossed.. You can't teach or force anyone to do what's good for everyone and not just them or their company. It's never been a job that plays fair with each other.
Icelandic dude, fight the good fight my friend! =)
The business honor oath is a little silly to be honest. You can't just take and oath and expect to be a good manager. Thats something your born with. I'm going with Popp on this one, Leadership is a genetic trait, it simply can't be taught. Some regulation is needed in some areas i think.
I don't think there really needs to be an oath.Companies need to find a better approach to hiring their managers.I think a standard test would be helpful.Something that is not required but can tell a company if a prospective employee has the type of education it's looking for.But still, it's only the company's fault for hiring the person.
The idea of making business people take a Hippocratic Oath is at best, a pipe dream. It is in human nature to desire profit, thus creating unlimited wants. The Hippocratic Oath is nothing but an ideology, and should hopefully stay that way for it is based on the grounds all individuals are morally benevolent. Take communism for example...
SJOLANDRA PAUL
I think that business people taking an oath is a way to insure that they will do whats right. In my opinion with todays economy its kind of hard to trust anyone with anything (money ,etc.).But Ithink that just because they are taking an oath it does not mean they will give themselves up for the ecomony.
There is no doubt changes needed to be made in our economy but i do NOT agree with this hippocratic oath. I mean honestly it may make a change in the future but this is not what will solve our problems. No business is going to change how they work overnight.
P.S. I love the Iceland man.
Taking an oath doesn't really say much. It won't fix the economy at all. Most of the businesses are into their own business. Education is needed in some ways to successfully run a business and an oath will not do anything. Most people will just look past the oath and do whats best to build their business.
I think that having business people take an oath would be a good idea, but would never work. Just because individuals take an oath does not mean they will sacrifice themselves for society. One good thing that would come out of it that is needed is the knowledge that the manager you are hiring is truly trustworthy and responsible.
p.s. I love the iceland guy! Mr. Pye you better watch out. if you see a huge viking man coming at you, you should run. he even has your picture! haha
I agree with alexa's comment, the intentions are good, but there is not really anything behind it. You can not really force anyone to behave and play nicely with the other children, and unlike with doctors, you can not revoke their practicing liscence when they do not follow the rules.
greatly enjoy that little comment about greg house. one of my favorite tv characters is he. however, i do not endorse most if any of his practices. the same goes for business. whether nor not CEO's should be forced to have formal education or oaths are another matter. Yes, innovation often does not spring from within the confines of chosen, approved college curriculum. Yes, we need some way of encouraging the morals of our countries leaders. i see an impasse for which i am not qualified to give an answer. this makes me very sad. We can only hope in the basic goodness of human beings. in that case.... we might be in trouble
The entire world is effected by this economic crisis. For the country of Iceland, it was unfortunate . I think that managers should not have a Hippocratic Oath. How would corporations know if their managers were following it or not. People make mistakes. We're only human. But we don't need a hippocratic Oath to enforce the business sector.
There is definate need of change within the system, but a hippocratic oath isnt really necessary beacause nothing will immediately change. I mean yes, over time the oath would have an effect but as of right now, more than a simple oath is needed to fix this major crisis.
I really don't think this whole oath ordeal is practical. Every business is different. The oath is basically just an ideology. Nothing about the oath will actually change. It will take more than this to fix this crisis.
-Tracy Kwong
It is good that people are trying to think up ideas to try and fix the whole crisis and what not. But how many people lie under oath? I don't think it would really do too much. It is a nice gesture and a good idea, if it would work. I do not think that a simple "Hippocratic Oath" will do much for the economy.
The Icelandic nation is kind of weak right now, but everywhere is weak right now...
Anyways...
Reform is definitely needed. There are so many ways to get around regulations in business. An oath only goes so far to keeping someone from doing something wrong. Some people will just cheat and do whatever they want to make cash. Everybody likes themselves some green.
i think morals should play a greater part in the the business world but a hippocratic oath? Lets just think back to that wonderful "New Ideas from Dead Economists" and Mr. Adam Smith. He that the reason market economies work is because every person wants to live better than they do and are pushed to buy things and spend money based on their self intrest. An economy works because people are greedy and everbody does their best to gain the greatest profit or spend the less money... plus i really dont beleive anyone would follow an oath that prevents them from the best deal
well persoanlly iceland guy get a life, nobody cares about your country. To me an oath wouldnt do much good. I mean doctors spend so much time in college to get a phd that that alone will keep a man to do what he is suppose to do. Buisness is sparked by self motivation, the desire to run your buinesses at its greatest efficancy. WHen this ceases to exsist, you have a crisis. And an oath wil not promote self motivation, your born with that
Having business mangaers take an oath has it's pros and cons. As an employee you would not want to have an ignorant manager making all the wrong decisions but on the other hand just becasue someone has the qualifications does not mean they are dedicated. There have been people who could not afford to go to college who have become very successful.
I believe managers taking an oath is a ridiculous idea. Yeah, they can say "hey i take an oath to be a good manager" but you never know what may happen in the long run. Your business may start off amazing, and the next day some deal goes horribly wrong and you have nothing. I think managers should take issues one at a time. Taking the oath may help give them motivation. Whether that motivation will stick, no one can really know.
Forcing management to abide by some code is a good idea and thought but that is all it is. Its just an idea or thought and it can't enforce what ones decisions will be. It would great if management could be held in check and obey some type of moral code, but that is not practical because the goal of anyone in this modern day world is to earn as much money as possible. The real issue is that we need people that will make smarter decisions that will benefit the present without putting the future in jeopardy.
I don't believe that businessmen and businesswomen should take an oath. After all, business is fueled by self-interest, and the risks are really to oneself. It's completely different from the medical field, where someone could in fact get hurt if something goes wrong. Nonetheless, bad business decisions would still be made, as an oath would not really change the logic of some business people.
Yay for the Icelandic flair on this post!
In my opinion i think that the oath will provide at least a base for the buisness owners to start of at. Yes they will end up doin what they want to benefit themselves just as doctors or lawyers could. I think they are in the same shoes with just as much responsibility. So we have to take chances just as we do in everyday life with these kinds of things. If we were to live in fear of this happening people would stop buying and the economy would difinately crash.
Once again another homerun from popp, that kid should be a football coach.
Listen to me cause i got the truth, the "business man" is an umbrella term for stern faces, steel smiles, and cold coffees. The guys are up to no good and the common man has no say, lets go back to the parliamant days and let the people talk like union leaders and average joes because they are the backbone of the economy and the smartest uneducated men in the world.
First, Iceland Crisis man is a little outta control and I like it. Stick up fo yo nation boy!!
Second, I agree with Jamie Zimm. The people that feed our economy are the most educated on how it works and what makes it go. I personally think that Mr. Pye should hold a national convention informing all of the uniformed people of our nation what their part is and how we can make it work. We need to stop giving money and furthering our selfs in debt. It needs to be fuxed. NOWW!
A Hippocratic Oath for business people sounds like a good idea. If doctors abide by it why can't managers? A Hippocratice Oath is about maintaining morals and that's what our country needs right now especially with all those credit problems with buying houses. Sure some managers will not follow the oath but those who actually care about the economy might.
Running a good business requires talent and experience, unlike doctors who have to learn a significant amount. Its all about the risks they have to take, and they have to suffer or enjoy the consequences. Doctors, however, have to make sure that the consequences do not affect the patient, which is the whole point of the oath. Applying it to the business world makes no sense.
I agree with the article... business managers do not need any sort of professional education such as doctors and lawyers and sometimes end up lacking professionalism.
But I do think they should take an oath. Many businesses really affect the economy, and poor decisions on their side can bring about widespread failures as we see now. I think they should swear to think for the good of the public foremost if they are influential enough to do damage if they aren't otherwise.
The individual should watch out for themselves and not have to worry about taking an oath when making financial decisions. Your goal in business should be to make has much money as u can and anything that impeades that is generally not recepted well.
To prepare young managers and entrepreneurs, economists or not, for the challenges that the business world has laid out for them, dramatic shifts in their education and training, as well as a new Hippocratic Oath, will be necessary. Management will have to become more like the learned professions of medicine and law. Professions such as these are characterized by a situation as to serving society, and they have a normative oath that encourages leaders to consider the consequence of their actions.
I think that making people take an oath for business matters has its pros and cons. It seems right, as well as good, to make people take and oath to uphold circumstances to fit the the ideas of whats best for a nation. But how can you prevent something like that from happening. No one knows what it's going to do. I know just as much as the president, if not more. Almost all of what happens is by accident, never intentional.
Some kind of control is surely needed over businessmen. The reason doctors have the Hippocratic Oath is because their jobs deal directly with people's lives-- as do the jobs of businessmen. We don't want socialism or communism, but we need to protect the laborers from the company owners and ceo's when they decide to take risks and later make the workers underneath them pay for it.
With trillions lost in retirement funds, maybe our government should make management a profession. Companies should have obligation to their consumers, but codes of conduct wouldn’t work. Companies still would want to do what’s best for them. They make decisions base on what makes the best profit, not what’s best for their consumers. I think what they do is necessary how ever, if they just don’t worry about their profits at all, and base their decisions of what’s best for consumer, they company won’t survive.
The oath made for business is just basically a stupid idea. Honestly, who's going to remember he once swore an oath, when the situation that does not have a advantage for the person. the human only thinks for themselves, driven by self-interest. The idea for the oath is actually very good, but yet this only exists as an idea, nothing is really going to accomplish without the committing and following the oath
An oath is just an oath. Although it is a good idea, it doesn't play that important of a role. A person will not continue to follow that oath if they don't feel it is applicable where he stands. For this reason, a more reassuring method should be used. Since so much has been lost, there needs to be some kind of grip on the "invisible hand" should happen.
I really don't think the oath is necessary. If business is let alone it naturally performs at the best level possible because of all those boring things that we learn about in economics like competition and supply and demand and what have you. :) just kidding about the boring part. But really, yeah some bad business decisions may have been made but the economy will eventually naturally fix itself, it's all about cycles. A hippocratic oath is just pointless.
i think that it is kind of strange that buiness people would have to take an oath becuase buisness is latgely in ones self interest. Buiness liscences and codes of conduct is just dumb. they should just keep everything the same or figure out someother solution to the crisis.
It'd be nice to believe that if someone signs a piece of paper that they actually read it and agree with all that it entails. Unfortunately, that usually isn't the case. Business executives will no doubt sign an oath if it is required, but by no means does this mean they'll follow it or refrain from laughing at the idea behind closed doors.
As many people said, business, especially in America is undoubtedly motivated by self-interest. Competition is the basis of the American economy! So trying to make an agreement between people who are set on running each other in to the ground is like asking 5 starving men to equally share a piece of bread. It would epically fail.
It would be amazing if someone would agree to an oath and keep their word to everything that they agreed to, but unfortunately our businesses are not like that. You cannot teach someone to be a strong leader or to be fair, they will do what they want when they want it. Sadly to admit, that's how it is now-a-days.
P.S. i LOVE Justin's comment :)
If you are going to make an oath as a business every competitor needs to put up something for collateral of equal value so this oath can be enforce. Otherwise this is a bad idea and canot be enforced because greed is the key factor and the achillies heel for the idea.
business is about having the knowledge that your competitor don't have and usign it for your benefit. putting business codes and lines seems so absurd. i mean it takes the whole meaning out of business world. a businees man is more woried about the profit he is going to make and his legal oath to pay back his lender than the other goodies. those things might be effective when things get into a situation where it is just impossible to keep it going.
Because the medical field can be a lot more stable than the money business i dont think an oath would necessarily work, but its worth a shot! if it means helping our economy and futures!
well im looking down at ashleys comment and im astounded, yet not surprised. Her idea to scub the oath just earned her a dub about 3 months late. This oath keeps good people good and may influence others to do the same, politicians should listen to my right hand man J popp and be a respectable man that other economys love to do business with. People are too quick to go for the profit and not help the consumer, i think its time we listen to Obama and change!
I like this argument, the fact that managing is not a profession and they make great amounts of money is just not fair. I have heard that even managers from small fast food restaurants make more money than a teacher and that really make me mad. I personally don't think a simple oath is going to change anything, it works for doctor because they are well educated and their job is saving life. But you make a manager do a similar oath i don't think i going to make much of a difference because some of this managers are not well educated and they usually thing of only make more money for them and the company.
LOL@iceland crisis.
Even if there was an oath required, I seriously doubt that most businessmen would take it seriously. In the business world, you have to look after yourself and do what it takes to make the most money. Even if the oath worked for a short while, the green monster would probably come out of most CEOs eventually.
Ashley Abraham
I think the idea of an oath may work in theory but not so much when trying to put it into action. It could be possible that it would work with a handful of people, for a certain amount of time, but really we can't say so much for business management as a whole. The best thing to do is to try and filter out as many people as you can, and hope for the best.
I have a hard time seeing business executives actually following any type of Hippocratic Oath. As Felice said, business is fueled by self-interest. If there is eventually some code of conduct for businesses, it will probably be completely ignored. It's not that business people are corrupt, just selfish. I mean, America would not be where it is today if it weren't for a bunch of self-centered businessmen who want to make a lot of money.
I think it is really funny that that person from Iceland actually commented on your blogspot. hahah I bet they are like secretly big fans of Mr. Pye's blogspot and read his posts religously. I hope so. Butttt on a seriously note, making someone take an oath is honestly a waste of everyone's breath. People now a days do not live by their word, even if they have signed in thier own blood. The would find a loophole with a convent with God if they could, which is sad. We just need to all realize that most people, including CEOS, and just dissapointing and will only screw us deeper into the ground.
im sry, but once again Mr. Pye, you have succeeded in agitating me to my very core. Call me a synical person but this garbage makes me think about that oath before a witness testifies in court. It, like this, is and would be done in a quick get-it-over-with fashion, and repeated like a robot. Sure people say "i swear to tell the truth the whole truth bla bla bla, and yet how many tesitmonies are proved false by the competant lawyers? Plenty. Same situation here, some rediculous oath mandated and originated by two save-the-world-in-a-day people is not going to help anything. You make every average joe/jane feel like a hero for getting an MBA like their being called up to be an Olympian, but im pretty sure thats about it.
I realize why someone would worry about these managers taking risks and failing , but that is just they way some things go. Making managers or whatever go to brush up conferences is stupid. Teachers don't like those conferences that thy have to go to to talk about students and they get paid for their time prolly. I'm sure an entruprenuer would rresent that as weell
In my opinion, the Hippocratic Oath will not work the same way in the business world as it does in the medical world. It all looks great on paper, as do many ideas. But when it comes to following the oath (dealing with "selfishness and "transparency"), will it be followed? Just as the New Years resolutions, not many of those goals would be kept.
But you never know. Most of the time, it doesn't harm anyone having an oath with good intentions. Perhaps having it would not be bad, just in case it actually works.
In my opinon i think taking a business oath is somewhat acceptable. we should all be able to trust that one person thats suppose to do the right thing. And as a business person that person should want to do right. But hey we do have some crooks in the system and i think its a good idea just to insure trust and someones loyalty.
I agree with Erin. An oath sounds like a good thing to do but who is to say anyone follows it. It is a guideline not a rule and would therefore be disregarded by some. While most people in business are there for their own self-interest, some may take the oath to heart.
Although and oath seems good on the surface, it doesn't seem like it would necessarily be all too effective. An Hippocratic Oath in the business world could prevent the ruthlessness of some, but in the end self-interest of businesses is one of the driving factors in the whole aspect.
I think the idea of business people taking a Hippocratic Oath is good, but only as an idea. If it ever takes fruition I don't think people would actually sacrifice themselves for the whole of the economy. It is human instinct to worry about one's self first. Cute idea though.
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